Don’t say, hey android has Linux in it, yeah no, idc, I want to know how far we are from buying a Linux phone at a price point of 200 USD.
A Linux phone is one which is built completely on Linux, uses Linux apps and most important has a terminal.
I don’t want a Linux Phone for privacy, although that’s a great reason, but I want it for the freedom it provides me. Hell, I don’t care if Android itself comes with a terminal and has similar features to Linux, I just want a Terminal which can install apps, where I can write commands and it will execute it. Complete Control on my phone and how it behaves is what I want.
I want to tell it when to sleep, when not to sleep, when to boot, when to edit a file and how, when to take a screenshot and what to do with it and where to save it, etc, etc. I hope you get the idea.
Yes. You have your pine phone. It’s more expensive than you’d like. But if if and only if enough people adopt it. Prices will come down with time
Since you don’t want anybody to tell you that Android is Linux, and you can do everything you want to do on Android with a custom ROM. I won’t mention it
Android with a custom ROM. I won’t mention it
do you know of any projects which has good support (and reputation) which has something like a terminal in it? I mean, I just want a terminal.
Also, I will be happy to spend 500USD on a Linux phone just to support it, but I wanted to know how far they are. Thank you for your comment.
If you just want a terminal you can install termux from github right now. No need for a custom ROM. It will be fairly locked down but you can use almost all programs that there are for linux. I use yt-dlp in Termux to download youtube videos
I like you lol. btw, can I do stuff like control volume using Texmux? Like idk, switch on or off my wifi and turn off airplane mode and stuff
I’d guess not, at least without root, as Texmux is still an app and Android won’t allow apps that much control over the phone.
I think this lack of real control via the terminal vs ‘real’ Linux is a key point.
You can also install DE like XFCE into termux to run graphical programs. I use that for noaa-apt decoder.
"A userdebug build of AOSP or GrapheneOS has a su binary and an adb root command providing root access via the Android Debug Bridge via physical access using USB. This does still significantly reduce security, particularly since ADB has a network mode that can be enabled. Most of the security model is still intact. "
https://www.reddit.com/r/GrapheneOS/comments/13264di/is_root_possible_with_grapheneos/?rdt=38934
custom ROM
I’m using CalyxOS on a Fairphone 4, works pretty well, appart from getting Playstore apps from Aurora Store without a Google account (I search for apps in firefox and open the link with Aurora which is clunky but works). You can install a terminal emultor from F-Droid, not sure why you would tbh but I’ve found several.
Yes, no, maybe, depending on what exactly you mean.
- A phone that is comparable in specs to a similarly priced Android and runs native Linux without tricks: This is not going to happen ever.
- An Android phone that can be hacked into running Linux with tricks: Yeah, that exists, but it’s DIY. There are a lot of cheap phones that you can e.g. install PostmarketOS on.
- A phone that runs native Linux without tricks for that price point: Yeah, that’s called a Pinephone, and it’s pretty much that.
There are two main issues, why a Linux phone with good specs and without tricks and with full, real Linux is impossible:
- Linux phones got a tiny market share and due to the natural monopoly of operating systems and app stores, that’s not gonna change any time soon.
- SoC manufacturers have a different way of working than PC part manufacturers. For example, they won’t upgrade the Linux kernel/drivers necessary. Because of that, my phone (Fairphone 4), which came out in 2021 and runs Android 12 still uses the 4.19.157 kernel, even though 4.19 came out in 2018. And even of the 4.19 version, the newest revision is 228, and I’m still running 157. They didn’t even bother upgrading the revision number. Stuff like that doesn’t fly on decent native Linux. And SoC manufacturers will not support newer kernels if it’s only for <3% of the market share or some miniscule number like that.
Don’t forget the SoC players NEVER open source anything including APIs so community drivers are not easy either
Do you think that might change with risc-v? As in, it would be more likely to have open source code and community support for kernel updates
Seems like Android which supports a broad range of Terminal commands is the best next thing.
“Android” phones can sometimes have “close to mainline” Linux distributions flashed onto them. You can get some of those, used, for less than 100$.
A custom Android rom would provide you with a decent chunk of the freedom you want in a mobile device.
A phone specifically built for Linux, with as much as possible FLOSS firmware, will cost a lot more. The cheapest is probably the PinePhone.
Good Q. Consider you can install Ubuntu touch on fairly cheap older phones already. I know you’re asking about “ready to go” phones but this is an alternate solution
Unless people pay for the hardware and software development to happen, Linux phones will never be as feature complete as Android or iPhones, so people will not buy as many, so the prices will not go down.
Also, I gotta disagree reeeeaaal hard with the sentiment in the comments here that Android is Linux since you can slap a terminal on it. Excuse me, but where’s the GNU?
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/android-and-users-freedom.html
https://f-droid.org/packages/tech.ula/
I’ve had great fun using userland to put gnu into my android, ran windows, tried to use a phone as a portable dockable computer… it’s so close, but not quite ready for a daily driver
The pinephone is cheap
RAM is pretty bad thought :(
3GB, everything else is upto the mark
deleted by creator
Basic functions like web browsing are borderline unusable on the OG pinephone, unfortunately. Still a fun device to hack away at, but I wouldn’t use it as a phone
Your expectations around price are unrealistic unfortunately.
And you can use a terminal with stock Android. Although you’ll probably need to root it to do anything useful.
I have a feeling those budget phones around that price are sold at a loss and gain the money from selling user data. So I doubt it’d get down to that price
Before the rise of Android and ios I’d have said it was possible, but the goal posts have shifted pretty far. Unless something backed by a corporate entity or government rises Up, it’s a no. A chromeos type thing for smartphone is not going to happen for mass market, because there is already Android.
Discounting Android, the last mile of what a smartphone is capable of can not be accomplished in Foss manner, without end to end verified OS images and some kind of secure enclave for banking and “security” features, carriers and banks are not going to get on board any more. Convenience features like DRM video streaming, casting also probably are not achievable either
We do banking with general purpose computers. How do you figure banking will be a sticking point?
Things like androidpay/apple pay type functions require a chain of security checks, on Android it’s levels of safety net. some banking apps require similar
Ive been on Graphene OS for a few months now and can confirm that banking apps work, but Google Wallet does not. One of my banking apps required me to toggle off hardened malloc in favor of Android’s standard malloc though, which definitely had me raising an eyebrow.
deleted by creator
Idk FOSS developers are a lot more motivated than microsoft.
All it is needed is to have at least equivalents of basic apps from F-Droid and we’re getting there.
Propietary apps for accessing one smart toilet seat brand or some trash locked down social platform should be abandoned anyway.
