I absolutely hate “smart” TVs! You can’t even buy a quality “dumb” panel anymore. I can’t convince the rest of my family and friends that the only things those smarts bring are built-in obsolescence, ads, and privacy issues.
I make it a point to NEVER connect my new 2022 LG C2 to the Internet, as any possible improvements from firmware updates will be overshadowed by garbage like ads in the UI, removal of existing features (warning: reddit link), privacy violations, possible attack vectors, non-existent security, and constant data breaches of the manufacturers that threaten to expose every bit of personal data that they suck up. Not to mention increased sluggishness after tons of unwanted “improvements” are stuffed into it over the years, as the chipset ages and can no longer cope.
I’d much rather spend a tenth of the price of my TV on a streaming box (Roku, Shield TV, etc.) and replace those after similar things happen to them in a few years. For example, the display of my OG 32-inch Sony Google TV from 2010 ($500) still works fine, but the OS has long been abandoned by both Sony and Google, and since 2015-16 even the basic things like YouTube and Chrome apps don’t work anymore. Thank goodness I can set the HDMI port as default start-up, so I don’t ever need to see the TV’s native UI, and a new Roku Streaming Stick ($45) does just fine on this 720p panel. Plus, I’m not locked into the Roku ecosystem. If they begin (continue?) enshitifying their products, there are tons of other options available at similar price.
Most people don’t replace their TVs every couple of years. Hell, my decade old 60-inch Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD TV that I bought for $2200 back in 2011 still works fine, and I only had to replace the streamer that’s been driving it twice during all this time. Sony Google TV Box -> Nvidia Shield TV 2015 -> Nvidia Shield TV 2019. I plan to keep it in my basement until it dies completely before replacing it. The Shield TV goes to the LG C2 so that I never have to see LG’s craptastic UI.
Sorry, just felt the need to vent. Would be very interested in reading community’s opinions on this topic.
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Back in 2019 I wanted a nice LED screen with high resistance to screen burn but the only economic option was a Samsung Smart TV.
I actually ended up getting it, ordering a custom mount for the ARM Chip, and using an input method on the chip that makes it run Java natively so that I could make the Smart TV drop it’s firmware onto a USB and from there I could modify it, since it was just running a version of Linux.
So that’s the story of how I un-smarted my TV. Get fucked, Samsung.
What a fucking ridiculous workaround that’s completely unavailable to the regular consumer…fuck Samsung (and the industry in general) for this approach.
Well, now that the community has had a few years to reverse engineer it I assume there are a lot of better and easier ways to replace the firmware with an open source quick fix. So, it’s not like my way is the only way. It was just necessary at the time. In fact, the community worked very fast to find a way to hack these “System on a Chip” architectures since the ARM chips were first released. They’re used in Macs, phones, TVs etc and have a very high power efficiency, but it is a very clear design choice to make them extremely difficult for the user to access and customize.
Unless it’s “load this file on a USB stick and plug in in your TV”-easy, it’s still out if reach to most consumers.
But my point is, it shouldn’t be necessary to do these things in the first place. Fucking drop the “smart” element from them completely, they always suck ass anyway and are laggy as hell to navigate.
Is it just me or is it really fuckin’ easy to not connect your TV to the internet?
I’ve hated “Smart TVs” for a decade now, but I solved my problem by just buying a set top streaming box (Apple TV, Nvidia Shield, etc) and leaving my TV off my WiFi.
Some smart tvs’s will whine incessantly about not having the internet.
Thankfully mine (Philips) only bitched about it for about a week, and gave up. Now the only real complaint I have with it is that it takes forever to boot, considering it has to fire up android after it’s been off.
LG doesn’t do this. They also have the good sense to allow firmware updates via USB. Which is great, because turning on WiFi long enough to install an update fills the home screen with junk.
I have an LG that is a couple years old. Never connected it to the Internet and don’t intend to but have wondered about firmware updates for it. I am afraid of an update adding ads or something else I don’t want. What is your experience? Or is there a resource that details everything (and I mean everything) that the updates change?
I’ve installed two firmware updates on my C1 and they have never added advertisements. I installed them because they both fixed specific bugs I was experiencing with my home theater system.
I don’t see why they would try to shove ads in an offline firmware update when it is both easier and more useful to download them from the internet once the device is connected. It’s hard to make money from ads when you can’t actually track user engagement.
That said I would only bother updating your TV’s firmware if there is a bug fix or feature you need from a newer version.
I also have a C1 and have been annoyed that it won’t turn on my connected AVR when I turn on the TV even though it has the capability and it turns it off when I turn the TV off. This wouldn’t happen to be one of the bugs you upgraded to fix, would it? What bugs did you encounter that you fixed with firmware upgrades?
Not OP, but what you’re referring to is called CEC control. Maybe just have a dig through your settings on both devices to check CEC is enabled.
is called CEC control
LCD display
HDMI interface🤪
I am aware of the CEC settings and they are working - the TV will power off the device just fine using CEC and it has the ability to power it on (I can manually trigger this) but the TV does not send a power on command to the AVR automatically when the TV is turned on. This seems to be a known issue but I don’t have a link to the forum discussion I found a while ago where others have the same problem.
The bugs I was having were related to eARC not working properly when G-Sync was enabled on my PC. I haven’t had any problems with my C1 not responding correctly to “one touch play” CEC signals from my PS5 or Apple TV.
Well I’m glad you got them fixed!
A good place to check is avforums or avsforums. There have been a lot of CEC and ARC issues (on all brands!). And a lot of people discussing the different updates (while laughing at the useful release notes)
I personally found that CEC power on only worked when I had the amp input selected, or used ARC.
Is it just me or is it really fuckin’ easy to not connect your TV to the internet?
I prefer not to reward corporations by buying equipment with built-in spyware.
(Also, “easy to not connect” depends on whether the TV nags you, or disables features, or uses any open wi-fi it finds, or includes a cellular or mesh modem.)
You’re just giving the same companies even more money when you buy their much more expensive “dumb” digital signage products.
Nobody’s been able to show me a TV that actually does those other things you suggest. If one did, I wouldn’t buy it, but I won’t base my current pruchasing decisions on hypothetical future products.
You’re just giving the same companies even more money when you buy their much more expensive “dumb” digital signage products.
No, I am not.
(And even if I was, it wouldn’t boost the sales numbers of spyware products, encouraging more of the same.)
Nobody’s been able to show me
If you don’t want to believe it’s a problem, I don’t expect anyone wants to waste their time trying to change your mind.
(Jay did report seeing examples in the wild, though.)
No, I am not.
Who do you think makes these digital signage products? They all come from LG, Samsung, Hisense, etc.
If you don’t want to believe it’s a problem, I don’t expect anyone wants to waste their time trying to change your mind.
Show me a TV that ships with a cellular modem or that connects to open wifi networks without being prompted, and I won’t buy it. I’m not the one with the burden of proof here. It’s very easy to see if a TV does any of this shit before you buy it just by checking reputable review sites like rtings. So telling people any TV they buy at Costco does this is just spreading FUD.
So telling people any TV they buy at Costco does this is just spreading FUD.
Nobody has said that.
This honestly and embarrassingly didn’t occur to me.
I got a roku for my smart TV because I wanted something with a Jellyfin app. I don’t trust roku any more or less than Vizio, but I find I like the idea of removing internet access to the TV directly.
Yeah they can try and push as much BS as they want but in the end I’m never using their software and always using a shield
Isn’t it the Shield that introduced ads on the homescreen since a few years?
Yes, but one benefit of the Shield over other android based devices is that it’s pretty hackable. You can replace the launcher and get rid of the ads and while it’s more than a single click to do that it’s easy enough by following a guide.
On my older shield that had the older launcher without ads I disabled updates for the launcher and reset it to its original version all through the normal settings interface.
I tried doing the same with a FireTV without success, Amazon forces you to use their launcher unless you’re willing to put in substantial effort.
all cars are headed there too… so very soon you won’t be able to get news or transportation without someone else’s permission…
Please drink a confirmation mountain dew to activate your air conditioner. Sorry, we didn’t hear the sound of the can opening, please open another where the microphone can hear it. Sorry, our servers are down, we apologize for any inconvenience this may be causing. Sorry, getting your family out of the vehicle is an optional feature which you have not subscribed to, please say “Do the Dew” to get temporary access to the friends and family doors. Sorry, I didn’t get that, please say “Do the Dew”. Sorry, I still didn’t get that, please call customer service at 1800-luv-cars to give your ad consumer confirmation phrase to a customer service representative.
Smart devices are basically data sniffers scooping up any info about you and your family, your habits,. They watch network traffic, listen to your conversations, and record video,. I’ll stick to dumb devices thanks.
My smart refridgerator said you’re a lying sack of shit
Oh yeah I put my meat in your fridges mom
I know. Your smart fleshlight posted about it on Facebook
I got a display signage TV. Totally dumb. The only app it has is YouTube and that’s optional. I don’t even have the internet hooked up to it. Works fine for gaming and occasionally streaming via other devices.
Where do you even get something like that?
I got mine through Amazon. Samsung makes the cheapest ones I’ve found. Just search for something like “samsung commercial TV”. They’re generally a little more expensive than your ad/data harvesting-supported TVs but if you value your privacy and longevity of your devices, it’s worth it.
Also, these industrial monitors have better heat sinking from the LED backlight, which increases power efficiency and service life – the two metrics their intended buyers care most about.
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I have solved this by not buying a TV in the last two decades. I just own projectors. Larger screen, cheaper, no “smart” nonsense. Depending on mounting, essentially invisible when not in use and not a large black rectangle in your living room. Do recommend.
How dark do rooms need to be for them to work? Are there issues with shared spaces where someone might want a well lit workspace?
I also want to know this
Having the sun shine through a large window is an issue, but is also an issue for a good picture on normal TVs. Picture quality with protectors is better when the room is darker (increases contrast), but a normally lit room is just fine. It also depends on how and what you’re watching. I generally do darken the room when I’m actively watching a movie, but no need for that when putting something on you’re just half watching. You can still tell just fine what’s going on even in a bright room, it just looks a bit washed out.
It also depends on the brightness/class of the projector of course, and on the screen. Don’t underestimate the visual difference a screen makes. Both having any screen over just projecting onto a white wall, and a great screen over a cheap ransom one.
The core issue is that a projector uses throwing light as bright, and not throwing light as dark. If your surface (screen or wall) is rather white and illuminated without the projector actually projecting light into it, that is as dark as a black part of the picture could possibly be. There are screens that are reflective, but more gray than white, those help with that, too.
I would say a normally lit room (with artificial light in the evening for example) is fine to use a projector. “Well lit workspace” really depends on you’re definition. For my definition of “well lit” it wouldn’t be ideal, but I’ve just installed like 49000 lumens of illumination into my 3.5 x 3.5 meter workshop, cause I like to see what I’m doing and life is too short for bad lighting.
Thanks, that’s a lot to think about. We currently use an oled computer monitor as a TV (hooked up to a pi) and it’s beautiful but there are limits on screen size and it’s crazy expensive (you’re paying for stupid fast refresh rates and the Gamer™ markup)
our house is very bright during the day, lots of glass in sunny Australia, so it’s probably not a great candidate for a projector generally but it does have me thinking about one in the bedroom for late night movies. Probably a lot cheaper and neater than another absurd monitor.
My last projector came with a low power android TV stick. I thought that was pretty cool, even knowing that I’d never use it. That means the smart TV features are there for the people that want them and can literally be thrown in the garbage for those that don’t.
I just run an HDMI from my computer…
I think you might have AngrilyDoublePosted lol
Yes. IMO if you want a smart tv just connect your laptop or computer to it. I’ll never buy a “smart” tv
Yep, they’re horrible. I always disable internet on them, uninstall any apps I can, and generally do what I can to avoid using the built-in smart TV, but I shouldn’t have to do this, its unfortunate and sucks to deal with. They just take advantage of consumers who don’t know better, wish the TV market wasn’t like this. :/
I’ll probably need to buy a new TV in a year or two. I read there are some ways to flash custom firmware on it.
Just get a monitor. The only real difference between a monitor and a TV these says is the lack of a speaker, and “smart” stuff. But TV speakers suck anyways so you’d be better off using a soundbar regardless.
I haven’t seen >40" monitors at a reasonable price though compared to TVs
Edit: also, there’s usually not any audio output to an amplifier on monitors.
As I mentioned earlier, use a soundbar or dedicated speakers (most TV speakers suck anyways). Also, for a reasonably priced monitors, look for monitors marketed as “commercial displays” - they’re generally the same price or even cheaper than a similar spec’d TV.
As I mentioned earlier, use a soundbar or dedicated speakers (most TV speakers suck anyways).
Yes, but there is no audio output (as in a RCA, Optical etc., not built-in speaker) to get the audio from the monitor to the amplifier.
Depends on the monitor, my one has a 3.5mm jack to get analogue audio out of the HDMI input which I use to get audio from my Xbox to the rest of my setup.
None of the >40" monitors I’ve looked at today had any audio outputs. But finding one that isn’t an ultrawide format for gaming is probably the bigger issues it seems.
??? The output is provided by whatever box you’re connecting to the monitor - set-top box, Android TV, Apple TV etc.
Not true at all…e.g. Chromecast doesn’t have a dedicated audio output and neither does the apple TV, they only have HDMI output. Now the HDMI does also carry audio, but many amps and especially sound bars, do not have HDMI to pass through and rely on getting the audio signal from the TV/monitor if you’re using those devices.
There are plenty of HDMI switches or splitters out there that support audio extraction, just use one of them to sit between your monitor. Like this one: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B00XJITK7E
And big monitors come with TV software nowadays…
Can you get monitors in 50 inch these days though? Then this would be my route as well once my current dumb TV dies
Yes, Viewsonic for instance is one company that makes them. Although, they’re typically advertised as a “commercial LED display” or something like that. Basically look for “display” instead of “TV”.
Just wanted to say same. I have used a Linux box as my Media Center and Home Server since 2008. Also have a chomecast dongle so I can steam from Android and Android apps. Not sure what else one needs.
Seems to me what one wants wants really is mostly a browser and ability to stream stuff from apps on your phone. Since the Linux box is a Media Center and Server it also has a lot of features a Smart TV would not have. Just do not see the value of a Smart TV.
I just saw a link to this
https://github.com/MayaPosch/NymphCast
Perhaps your l8nux can cast as well?
the smartshitification of TVs is annoying, and i too hate being tracked by every device i use. That said, the incredible value of these TVs can’t be overstated. Most people can’t or won’t spend more than $500 on a TV, so most people would still be using 1080p displays if it wasn’t for this phenomenon, but now EVERYONE gets to have a 4k TV because the price is partially subsidized by all those ads you’re seeing.
I think it’s probably a net negative for society overall, but just wanted to point out that there is an upside to all those ads.
I found this comment funny because I’m still using 1080p TVs in the house. Mostly because after we got them I cut the cord and couldn’t even remotely stay under the Comcast cap with 4k. Even after I moved on to T-Mobile home internet, uncapped for now, I haven’t upgraded because there really hasn’t been a pressing need. Hell, cable and streaming don’t actually deliver 1080p, it usually is 720p max. I have no idea if the 4k options actually broadcast in 4k vs a smaller resolution.
honestly you’re playing it smart. I can’t speak to cable, but you are right that streaming apps don’t exactly justify the bump in resolution. The image they spit out to your screen is 4K, but the compression required to stream in 4K means that most of the added details are just crushed by the format. So ironically, you don’t really benefit from 4K unless you use Blurays, at which point you don’t really need any of the “smart” features of your 4K tv.
The compression issues are true for 1080p too, any dark scene on Netflix gets some horrible color banding and artifacts.
Ironically, the pirates don’t have that issue as their multi-gig torrents don’t have much compression compared to the some-hundred megs stream provided by Netflix
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I just never entered my Wifi details into my smart TV. I only use the HDMI inputs on it anyway, so it behaves like a dumb one. It’s a RCA TV from Walmart, if anyone is wondering.
As a lot of people here, I did the same, bought the smart TV, it needed internet for firmware upgrade, and once it had started and did not ask for my inputs or whatever, I selected the HDMI1 as startup, plugged a Chromecast. Then went into the TV menu to forget the network settings on the TV. It’s just a monitor used to cast Netflix, Disney, Plex, Prime, etc.
How is plugging in a Chromecast any different than using the same software built into a Google TV?
As the owner of original $500 Sony NSX-32GT1 TV from 2010, I can tell you exactly how different it is. Its UI wasn’t exactly a snappy experience to begin with, but it’s gotten even more sluggish over the years until everything stopped working due to being EOL. The OS on it has been unsupported since around 2016, so it’s stuck on ancient Android TV version. Most apps (even built-in ones like YouTube) stopped working a few year later, and cannot be updated.
Sure, a $50 Chromecast will eventually suffer from the same problems, but I can replace it 10 times for the same amount of money while keeping my TV because its 32-inch 720p panel still displays content just fine.
While true, the context of this discussion was mostly about privacy rather than functionality. Builtin Chromcast vs external changes nothing on that front. There is also nothing that would prevent you from plugging in that fancy new external Chromecast to the old Sony and getting new functionality from it if the display is still to your liking.
I don’t know for a Google TV, but others brands have microphone and ads in their builtin …
Actually I think a lot of people do upgrade their TVs somewhat often, as stupid as that is. I will be clinging to my dumb TV for dear life as long as possible, but I feel like people are very consumerist these days. TVs have gotten cheap enough that they feel able to.
It goes without saying that no one should have to buy a new TV because there is a bunch of trashy software on it, but I’m sure it’s already happened enough to incentivise these assholes’ bad behavior
Pro Tip: Buy a Computer Monitor e.g. 4k 34 inch
they don’t have any smart tv shit, but you need to buy some extra for the audio
that’s a lot more money for a smaller screen, though. 32" is a big monitor sitting in front of a desk, but a small TV if you’re on a couch.
you can buy “gaming” monitors that are 48" big for example https://x-kom.de/653504-gigabyte-aorus-fo48u-475-zoll-4k-gaming-monitor-hdmi-21dpusb-c-120hz-hdr-oled (caution! german website)
or this one: https://www.lg.com/de/monitore/lg-48gq900-b
Idk at which point they are starting to implement some kind of “smart tv”
caution! german website
Is there something scary about German sites that I’m not aware of?
jesus what are those prices
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That second one is apparently sub-ms latency, which is incredibly unnecessary for a TV.
If you mean the 0.1ms, that’s not latency. That’s grey to grey speed which is practically meaningless. The image can’t get from your PC to the monitor in 0.1ms.
The fastest monitors I can find have a real latency of 1.7ms, and that’s a 1080p monitor running at 360Hz. When you get down into the 4k 120Hz range that the top TVs do, the speed falls to around 5ms, which is about the best you’ll get from a TV.
“gaming” and of course NO SMART SHIT
48" is still small by many people’s standards. My TV isn’t particularly large and I think it’s a 52"
Many features that come with TVs these days are not available on monitors. For example “filmmaker mode”
Monitors are effectively always in ‘filmmaker mode’, as they don’t do frame interpolation and colour grading and over-scanning and all the stuff that filmmaker mode disables.
I don’t think there are many monitors that support 24fps natively.
A 120hz or 144hz (reasonably common) monitor could do 24FPS with no issues, as that’s either every 5th or every 6th frame exactly.
Im not sold in the idea. I did find a couple of OLED 4k 120hz monitors on ‘TV size’ (BenQ MOBIUZ EX480UZ ), but then they dont seem to have (or at least advertise) hdmi-arc or hdmi-CEC support, and the brightness is only 480 nits (vs 800 of a LG C2) and it seems more expensive.
I would not recommend it as a replacement for an actual TV in a living room.
