I’ve always thought that the upholding of these laws should instead result in quotes and “imagery” from Islam directly…or any non-Christian religion, really.

Some are doing one step more and registering on the instances hosting the piracy communities.

My mastodon account follows a few lemmy communities but I find the formats for each don’t transfer well. I’ll sometimes switch from one to another if I specifically want to make a retoot of a comment and direct attention to a community.

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen entire instances be announced before

If you actually lose consciousness during the process, there might be an argument, but if I can walk onto a platform while having a conversation with someone and continue that conversation seamlessly with no gaps in my short term memory then I did not die and there was no destruction, merely the encoding and decoding of myself into my equivalent in energy in a process that might as well be instantaneous.

We can re-attach limbs, imagine if it were possible to be completely disassembled, shipped first class mail around the world, and then re-assembled. Wouldn’t we be the same person?

If there’s no break in consciousness, then there would be no death. I was simply encoded as bits of data and then decoded, a process that I would be conscious of and experience in some way, I assume. If when I get off the transporter at point B with a 1:1 memory of the experience like walking from one room to the next, in no way did I die.

I always assume this is asking me as if I was in one of the examples universes like Star Trek. I 100% would never get in Musk’s Teslaporter, but in a world where it’s as widespread as airplanes and trains? Would use, wouldn’t be murder.

!lemmyfinds@sh.itjust.works !newcommunities@lemmy.world

Mid-teens? IDK I care more about fit and shape than brand. Boxer-briefs for life!

In real life, I think we’d probably glean some insights to the soul in the development process. Like say, if one of the first human test subjects goes through it, only to have their personality irrevocably changed, and no one can identify any external reasons why, then that would warrant further research before billions of humans start using it and it becomes an actual problem.

I think part of my “resistance” to this question is that by default, I’m approaching it from the assumption that I’m living in some hypothetical world where a teleporter is as common and everyday as a car or train, and extrapolating from there, so a lot of the hypotheticals don’t exist for me because I’m imagining public use. “What if someone puts the version of you that didn’t teleport in their basement” well then they would have to coerce me out of the presumably public location for teleports between cities or wherever, because if I step on a pad expecting to be halfway across the globe in two seconds and instead I’m still in the same room, I’m not gonna leave until it’s explained to me what went wrong and I’m given assurances for future service and compensation for the failure that already happened.

“oh well what if it only created copies of you” well then it probably wouldn’t supplant any existing forms of transportation :), and of course then I wouldn’t use it to get around.

The situation and plot of The Phantom of Kansas doesn’t seem to have much to do with teleportation though? It doesn’t look like Phantom of Kansas features a world with teleportation as a means of transportation, so I’m not sure what relevance it has to the discussion of teleporter technology since no one actually teleports in that story. Also, it makes it clear that there’s a break of consciousness between one body to the next, but most people view teleportation as an instant thing that you’re aware of the whole time. I accept that the premise in Kansas is similar, but people seem to use it to change their sex and appearance but keep their memory, or use it to restore backups of themselves if they can afford it, not get from point a to point b. When the question of “would you step into a transporter, like the one in Star Trek” is brought up, then it feels like moving the goal posts to bring up all these other examples of things that aren’t technically teleporters, or to talk about what a “real” transporter would “have” to do.

The transporter, as shown in Star Trek, and the more generic teleporter, doesn’t kill you and create a clone in your place unless something goes wrong. To believe it does says more about what one thinks of the metaphysical and spirituality than it does about science.

I think what matters is are you conscious the whole time. In my view, I feel like if I stepped onto a pad at Point A and walked off a similar part in Point B, and was awake for the whole experience, or at the very least experience no gap in memory, then it’s not death. I think that if there’s a break in consciousness, then sure, it opens things up to the death/cloning question, but I’ve never seen a depiction of teleportation that knocks the user out each time.

A clone. As far as I know, there’s nothing in our established understanding of the world to suggest that merely copying the physical materials of my atoms would reproduce my memories and personality.

Seeing as anything that we copy or make backups of now is not self-aware, I don’t see what that has to do with anything. If anything, a teleport (as conceived of and described in science fiction, not how it might “actually” work) is more like moving a file from one tree to another. The whole idea of the teleport as a plot device is to create a form of near-instant transportation. I feel like these thought exercises where “what if the teleporter cloned you and killed the original copy” miss that.

Its like, “hmm what if the train from New York to Boston actually brought you to a cloning facility in New Haven, shot you in the head and then replaced you with a lab-grown clone that went on to Boston in your stead” well then it wouldn’t be what most people think of when they think of taking the train.

In order for me to be convinced that the common depiction of teleportation is a form of cloning and murder, I would need someone to prove to me that humans have souls in a metaphysical sense - that there’s something about us as individuals beyond the sum of our lived experiences and the atoms that make up our bodies.

Not directly. We know that there are materials a replicator can’t replicate - latinum (Ferengi currency) and dilithium (part of the power for warp drive) - or that are hard to replicate and so people prefer the real thing. I imagine that there are 24th century versions of the heavy metals we put in our modern day computers that can’t be replicated. We even have references to “industrial replicators” in DS9, which implies to me something that spits out a prefabricated factory that then makes things, in addition to just being food replicators that can be deployed in a refugee camp.

People seem to think that inventing a matter replicator would prevent this, meanwhile all I can think is “they’d DRM the living shit out of replication tech”. You want HEALTHY food? Better pay us 12.99 a month for the “Fit Package”. “Sorry, but only Apple-certified replicator patterns work with the iWant.”

If I walk to the teleport pad, expecting to blink from Point A to Point B, but instead I experience a blink from Point A to Point A, I’m the kind of person who’d need to be physically coerced, threatened, or tricked into captivity, because I’d immediately hop off the pad like “uh why am I still here I’m supposed to be in Berlin, I’m not leaving until you refund my transport cost or get me to Berlin”. If I’m not conscious, then I’m the victim of criminal action, not the teleporter.

Likewise, the version of me that just experienced a normal teleport would live their life as they would have anyways.

Both of us would be me. Then, as our experiences diverged from the point of duplication, we’d become different people (See: Thomas, the duplicate of William Riker in Star Trek. The only reason Thomas and not Will is considered the copy is because of audience perspective, but empathizing with each of them makes one see how both are Will Riker at the start of the episode). This all of course, assumes we don’t discover something like the popular conception of souls during the early trials. But I don’t believe there’s anything about a “soul” that can’t be tied to the sum of one’s lived experience, which would be copied too.

I would consider a clone to be more expansive of who it could include besides copies of myself as I am now - it would also be someone grown from the literal same embryo as me who’d lived a completely different life with even a different name.

If you were a Federation citizen living on any of the core worlds (earth, vulcan, andoria, and tellar prime) I think you’d be okay. It’s not like it’s something you have in the home anyways - we don’t get much civilian life in Star trek but it’s implied that you just physically go to the transport pad you want to use and use it.

what if you aren’t disassembled on the first side? Just copied over. Then it’s not what most people imagine when they say “yes”.

Using the star trek transporter as the example, you actually experience the teleportation process. In one episode, we see the perspective of someone being transported and they go into a white void, briefly, and then appear in the 2nd location. It takes like 8 seconds. We also know that some transporters are faster than others.

I don’t believe there’s anything special about my current body. Barring teleportation, I fully believe that if it were possible to disassemble a person, but them in a box, ship them across the Pacific Ocean, and then put them back together again, that they’d be the same person.

I don’t see how being converted into energy and back represents death.